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143350 No.5970   [Delete]   [Edit

So this is an idea that ended up being kind of discussed in the IRC and I felt was a good idea to actually bring up.

One of the things that always kind of bothered me was that we have the wilderness and we have a ton of monsters and stuff that should be within our world but nobody ever seems to bump into them. There's no danger in the wilderness, no reason why people would worry about leaving the city unprotected and it just seemed kind of... unusual.

So, with that in mind, why not change it? For example, if someone was to post a fish in the forest, for example, why not have them attacked by one of the monsters within it? It seems like it could make things a little interesting, and honestly I'd quite enjoy sending my characters out there and seeing something like that happen.

Or a further idea that I absolutely love the idea of, why not have hostile races? For example, have a race of orcs that sends out raiding parties and stuff like that occasionally, that your characters might run into if they leave the city. I think it just allows for the world to seem a little more alive, especially since we have all these NPC races but they don't seem to do anything but keep to themselves.

I'd have just gone and done this kind of thing myself but it doesn't work well with one person doing it, and I wouldn't want to do it without knowing that people are alright with the idea. So what do you guys think?

Last edited 13/05/11(Sat)19:29.

>> No.5971   [Delete]   [Edit]
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I'm not only up for it, but I encourage this. I often times post Mirosa out in the forest late night, just going for a walk. And only Mari has replied with something hostile thus far, people usually take other options. I think it's just because 1) people don't often times leave the city late at night or post themselves in deep forest or 2) they don't want to deal with the chance of harming someone's character or dealing with power levels, both things that can cause a lot of drama and frustration.

In terms of hostility, there are a lot of hostile animals, but only a few people that post them. As for races, most of them live very far out even if they were hostile, so going into outskirt forests wouldn't be dangerous even if there were hostile races. I think the map is pretty big.

P.S. If someone wants the Spider Queen to take control of that spider race, I have an image base for her.

Last edited 13/05/11(Sat)19:37.

>> No.5972   [Delete]   [Edit]

On the subject of power levels or injuring someone else's character, I think you really have to actually work with the other person with that anyway. Like, I was under the impression that most of the time with fighting a person's character only gets damaged as much as that person allows it to. Also, an idea I just had for a character that perhaps isn't that powerful is that there's always the opportunity for another character to step in and save them, which is another way of getting characters to interact with each other.

As for the races thing, that's one of the reasons my suggestion was an orcish raiding party instead of another race being a little hostile. Regular hostile races perhaps wouldn't do anything, but if it's a race that's actually made to be barbaric you'd expect them to send out raiding parties and such near to settlements that they know about.

>> No.5973   [Delete]   [Edit]
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All you have to do is send it on over.
I think you're right. As for injuries? Who gives a shit? As much as it sucks really really bad, if anybody gets injured, someone will just give them a magic health potion. No need for a hospital, really.

>> No.5974   [Delete]   [Edit]

I didn't even think about it, but yeah. And someone's character somewhere could even work it that permadeath isn't even a definite thing.

>> No.5975   [Delete]   [Edit]
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>> No.5979   [Delete]   [Edit]

We never really see those in the rp though, I'd like to see them.

>> No.5980   [Delete]   [Edit]
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And also yeah I totally dig this idea. I'm just being silly 'cause I kind of play three separate monster things that I do occasionally use and have injured multiple people with them. And the Dark Elves tame the dire wolves as war-mounts.

I've been thinking about picking up more general monster things too for the sake of giving people things to fight and adding dangerous mobs and traps to some of the things I need to DM. But I can never think of anything when I need to.

Read above. You don't see them. But that doesn't mean I don't use them. When I do it's usually just drowned out after a bit though 'cause the threads go by fast and I usually have waaaaay too many other things to do than focusing on monster stuff.

Last edited 13/05/11(Sat)20:55.

>> No.5981   [Delete]   [Edit]

Maybe we need to revive the monster thread again or something then, since it doesn't seem to be used much. Get some more ideas for good enemies and stuff going.

Yeah, fair enough, I haven't been the most active person ever either so it's likely I've just missed them.

Last edited 13/05/11(Sat)20:57.

>> No.5982   [Delete]   [Edit]

What I think is that people should be in charge of using the monsters they post, or at least providing links to information about said monsters. Some of the ones on there I don't feel I have adequate enough info on. And I think a lot of it's come off of Monster Hunter related stuff.

>> No.5984   [Delete]   [Edit]

I think they'd be better being put in charge of providing links and information about their monsters, because perhaps unlike races anyone should be able to use a monster in their session and I think putting anyone actually in charge of a type of monster might limit that a little. I could be wrong or misunderstanding though.

>> No.5985   [Delete]   [Edit]

Nah I definitely worded that poorly.

I meant that whoever posts a monster race should be responsible for putting it out there and establishing it at least. And providing more info.

Perhaps people don't understand how some of these could be used? As silly as that may be given they only need to read the descriptions and the info in the links, it could definitely be a concern that requires demonstration for some. They don't need to really control every instance, just putting it out as an example, so to speak. So that people know it's there and not just there in concept.

I should also establish that our world has Minecraft creepers, because I had a Creeper-girl mate with Rance and then lay eggs that spawned thousands upon thousands of creepers that now wander the forests and mountains.

>> No.5986   [Delete]   [Edit]

Yeah, we should definitely have some people work on establishing and maintaining the monsters, whether it's a couple of people or whoever comes up with the individual monster, it'd definitely help people actually use them.

If it seems like people actually support this idea then I'll work on writing up stuff for an orc race or something similar because I think it'd be nice to have some aggressive humanoids as well and barbaric races work well for that.

>> No.5987   [Delete]   [Edit]
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I for one would love the chance to do some combat. Maybe we could implement a dice rolling system to get rid of drama issues? Kinda like 4chan's /tg/?

>> No.5988   [Delete]   [Edit]

IRC has dice rolling.
But I don't really like it too much given that it can be completely unrealistic in some situations for certain attacks or movements to fail.
Yeah I'll do the same probably since I already use three as is.

>> No.5989   [Delete]   [Edit]
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I recognize that some things may be unrealistic, but that's something easily handled with the discretion of the players, no? The dice would really just be a sort of mediator to cut down on potential godmodding or what have you. And yeah, I thought of the IRC after I posted.

>> No.5990   [Delete]   [Edit]

We've had experience with some people taking the dice rolling thing waaaay too far before. I'm just skeptical of that happening again is all.

>> No.5991   [Delete]   [Edit]

I'm not sure we really need dice rolling with the community we've got, if I'm honest. I mean, I don't have THAT much experience, but the people that I've got to know here don't seem like the time to god mod or anything that much.

>> No.5993   [Delete]   [Edit]

Uh, I think that concern was covered here >>5985

>> No.5994   [Delete]   [Edit]

I'd be on board for this, though who plays the random mob is a good question and how you prevent unnecessary character death is another.

>> No.5995   [Delete]   [Edit]
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Yeah, you have to talk it out. Problem is, no one really cares to talk it out.

That's just poor writing, really. If you must roll things to work something out, then something should change. Communication issues, working things out with power levels, learning you can't always win, the works.

That being said, I have no problem with it in and of itself. Letting a third party decide is fine in many cases. Using it as a crutch, however, isn't okay. Which is what I feel like you're suggesting.


>implying you do anything with what I give you

Don't you have monsters anyways? The heartless and those big dumb looking guys from wind waker come to mind.

Last edited 13/05/11(Sat)22:18.

>> No.5996   [Delete]   [Edit]

The person who plays the random mob is whoever feels like doing it at the time, and if I'm honest the way we rp doesn't really seem open to any unnecessary or accidental character death unless the person playing the mob is really trying to kill something.

>> No.5998   [Delete]   [Edit]
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I've already asked for this feature on /sugg/. I'm really hoping for it.
That's what modifiers are for. Rather than depending entirely on luck, it becomes adding an element of luck to things. It would just be a matter of deciding the stats of a character. And while there may not be any way to make sure everyone's stats are right or are realistic in relation to each other's, that's not what I mean. I'm talking about deciding for X fight. "Well, if you play X and her initiative is 7, then I think my character's should be 10. She's faster than her in the anime by a lot" or what have you. No, it's not perfect, I'm not saying that either. But it's a good idea, especially in a community where several people will tell you that they think everyone godmod's or at least doesn't play their character's strength accurately.
First of all. You're wrong. There's nothing wrong with using dice to decide things at all. There's nothing wrong with it for the same reason that there's nothing wrong with not planning out every aspect of your plot. Because chance is the spice of life. And while we're at that, chance can play a big deal in other things as well, when on an adventure or something. Not counting the fact that people miss sometimes(A fact everyone in RP will ignore to the ends of the earth) and that people trip up sometimes(a fact everyone completely refuses to think about) or that people just mess up.

As for your other responses. There's a pretty good IC reason I can't post the things you've given me right now, and I can't reveal it without ruining someone's plot, but you already know about it :/ And...

>From WindWaker

UUUUGH, you just gave me cancer. No, I played(long ago :@) the Moblins from every Zelda game ever :@ And I mostly used the pictures of them from the games where they aren't giant, mis-proportionate, cell-shaded freaks that look like they're drooling all the time and use stupid-ass weapons they never used in any of the other games. Ahem, sorry. But still, that was a long time ago. And I do have the heartless. But... Good luck getting anyone else to take that base off your hands and do something with it.
Now, I know this is just me, but... if you're playing your monsters right, they should be trying to kill someone. I know, you're talking about the player being intent on it, not the characters, but... Yeah. If you play them right, they should be taking every opportunity they can to kill you. Which, btw, is another place where CHANCE can really help someone out. Just sayin'.

>> No.6000   [Delete]   [Edit]

I think what's best depends entirely on the way you see roleplaying, if I'm honest. For some people, roleplaying is like a free-flowing game and a dice system would enhance that by allowing it some kind of rules. For other people, and I'm included in this one, roleplaying is like writing a collaborative story together. To me, dice rolling doesn't have a place in that, it's up to the people writing the characters. And if you play your characters well, you can have them attempting to kill someone without actually succeeding, all dice rolling and random chance would add to that is restrictions and a way out of having to think carefully about how you write a fight

>> No.6001   [Delete]   [Edit]



I think that's the best part of the idea. It restricts others too. From being too unfair.

>> No.6002   [Delete]   [Edit]

It's not really good writing to have your character always "somehow" succeed or escape coming to harm either. More good stories would come from people following the consequences of things than by allowing them only to come to harm or fail when they want to, especially in a community like this one. As nice as it is to be optimistic about it and say "Well, you just have to trust everyone to do it right!" people are by and large going to choose the path of least resistance most of the time and don't care whether something would be more interesting if they did it realistically or not. And obvious or not, at least a handful of people here have pride issues about letting their characters fail.

Last edited 13/05/12(Sun)18:50.

>> No.6003   [Delete]   [Edit]

I don't like the idea of placing restrictions on people here, if I'm honest. I mean, personally I liked this place because the roleplaying was quite open and free, if I wanted a roleplay with restrictions I'd just go and play d&d or something to be honest.

I'm going to be honest, I don't particularly like the idea of "some people aren't going to do it properly so we should restrict it". That, and I think as well as good stories we've gotta think about what people enjoy. Personally, I feel like it'd make the rp feel a little more... clunky, I guess, to have to have a dice roll to decide everything.

And to add a point that I should have added earlier, it's easy enough to say "normal people would miss occasionally" or "well, it's not unrealistic for someone to trip up" but on the whole our characters are not normal people. For the most part, the characters that we'd see engaging in combat are often some of the best that their universe has to offer. They're highly skilled fighters, not just normal people, and the better someone is the less they will probably miss without the other person doing something. Keep in mind as well that even in real life you're less likely to miss because of your aim than you are because your target is moving and has managed to move out of the way of your blow.

>> No.6004   [Delete]   [Edit]
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I think we talked about dice before, and I didn't really care for the idea then. I still don't either.

Arguably bringing in the use of dice will just skew the balance of power even more towards the stronger types. Simply because they could just tank a bad dice roll when anyone closer to the lower end of the scale couldn't. Not even counting the fact they'd have higher stats too, more than likely. Something like the equivalent of a level 14 adventurer smacking down a group of goblins, if he rolls bad and they hit him it isn't gonna do much. But when he hits them with his enhanced +5 flaming burst longsword, the inverse will be much less pleasant. Being in this situation before, let me tell you it is not fun. Freeform is probably more fair in that regard.

What I expect to get out of an rp like this and what I expected to get out of a PnP RPG are two very different things, which is why I'm hesitant on thinking dice are a swell idea in any usage in this sort of thing. Too much dark heresy has really made me not like the system, when a character who's been doing his job for most of his life still has a 50-40% chance of failing at any given task he should be just fine at. That's one thing during combat, it's another for static checks like picking a lock or fixing something; shit's frustrating.


I guess it kind of goes with this guy's post right here, most of our characters are good if not exceptional at what they do already. It sort of cheapens that to bring luck in for the sake of luck, when for the most part, they wouldn't trip up all too often at what they're doing without outside circumstances negatively affecting them.

Last edited 13/05/12(Sun)20:33.

>> No.6005   [Delete]   [Edit]
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Don't feel like reading all this text but I like the idea of monsters attacking people more often. Mine never have anything happen to them (not like I try) so monster attacks would be cool. Last time I wanted one nothing happened. Two people looking weak in the middle of nowhere is a perfect time but we just walked forever.

Also I read up to dice talk and I don't want to jump on that train.

>> No.6007   [Delete]   [Edit]
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Err.. I really don't think that's true.
Because like you said, they're mostly very powerful characters. ... And that means that there's no less reason for them to miss or trip or something. Even though they're very strong, their opponent usually is too. So... it's just the same as a normal human fighting another most of the time. You may be fast at shooting things, but they might be just as fast at dodging, is my point here.
Well, guess I give up. Maybe I should go play one of those PnP RPGs, then. Since I don't like systems that are this open.

>> No.6008   [Delete]   [Edit]
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If you find a good one let me know, most of them that I play tend to be ones I run. Shit sucks, man.

Back to the topic: I really don't like totally open systems either at the core of it. Freeform has never sit right with me since I've seen people abuse them up and down the road, that's really a flaw with it you can't entirely iron out. Problem is applying some sort of rules retroactively is always a gigantic pain. There's probably some sort of balance but I don't know what it is, because putting dice in and ad hoc'ing modifies to relevant rolls just sounds too messy.

The shit we did on /tr/ with evens/odds/gets worked alright most of the time, but it really only applied to battle. Anytime it was attempted to emulate any sort of skill check it was very likely butthurt would ensue.

...which is actually where my problem with it comes from primarily. If you wanted to implement it for fights alone I'd be much more apt to support it. Within reason, so things don't fly too out of balance.

>> No.6011   [Delete]   [Edit]

But dodging is different to missing, and being tripped is different from just tripping up. The greatest marksman in the world would be unlikely to miss, but someone would be able to act to dodge their shot. That's what makes the difference, the action part. Also, I'm going to be honest, I have no idea how a dice thing works on an image board but I'm assuming you'd have to roll and then post again or roll and edit your post and I'm not a fan of either idea because it makes combat take a lot longer and puts another barrier in the way of people actually bothering to do the stuff that this thread is actually about.

>> No.6013   [Delete]   [Edit]

That's what I'm talking about, Holt, yes. I don't think it's relevant anywhere else. I ask you guys to roll a d10 for spot check when I DM things and that works just fine.

I'm only talking about in fights because that's the only place you can really abuse the system.

The greatest swordsman in the world is just as likely to miss as anyone else if he's fighting the greatest demon from another world, Kurisu. Or at least, that makes sense to me. The more skilled your opponent is, the less effective you are against them. Also, I don't think you'd have to do that, but maybe you're right. I don't s /tg/, so I wouldn't know how it works on 4chan.

Last edited 13/05/13(Mon)17:44.

>> No.6014   [Delete]   [Edit]

The only way a dice roll system would be able to be implemented is if we had a feature on our board for it. And it would work like this:

>player is about to perform some decisive action (attacking or something)
>makes a post detailing the attempt, just like we do now, but includes whatever command there is to invoke a roll
>when the post about the attempt goes through, it will have the dice roll result somewhere in it automatically
>next poster looks at the result to determine whether the attack/whatever should have been successful or not

And that's all there is to it. Our system is already set up in a way where you post "attempts" and let the opponent decide whether the attempt succeeds or not. All that would be different here is that they would have better criteria to decide upon than "do I want them to hit me this turn?"

Last edited 13/05/13(Mon)18:25.

>> No.6015   [Delete]   [Edit]

Ignoring magic, the greatest demon in the world would be just as easy to hit as the weakest without the demon acting to evade the hit or just moving in general. This is where the person roleplaying the demon comes in, and I don't think there should ever be a point where they can't go "nah actually, imma take this hit and do this".

And then what decides whether it hits or not? Unless we have people write stat sheets for all our characters and detail everything, the only way that it isn't still the opponent dictating completely with no restrictions is to have opposing dice rolls. So that would require the opponent to roll first then make their post.

Last edited 13/05/13(Mon)18:26.

>> No.6016   [Delete]   [Edit]
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You're right that it's not as much of a "miss" as a "dodge" on the part of the other player, but there are a lot of really vague factors when it comes to a RP fight. Especially because we're pitting characters against each other who are from completely different canons, whether Character A's Super Lightning Fast Dodge is fast enough for Character B's Super Lightning Fast Attack is something that is either going to be a) extremely obvious (Kagami vs. The Flash) or b) extremely hard to decide (two characters who are really really fast in their own canons but have no real way to compare to each other). This also becomes an issue when one character with vague strength/power wants to break a barrier with vague strength/power. Instead of letting personal feelings get involved, you could just set a certain "difficulty" like D&D does and see if the other character surpasses it with their roll.

Having a dice roll helps with that because, if you choose to use it, you have a way that is at least a bit more concrete than either flipping a coin or basing the result on personal desires.

I wouldn't force dice rolls on two consenting RPers who wanted to take their battle in a specific direction for dramatic effect or whatever, but it would be nice to have one in place for those who want to use it.

>>And then you edited before I made my post

To answer your question, rather than opposing dice rolls, all you have to do is decide OOCly (we have chat programs for this) what the difficulty of the attempt should be. This is a number that the roll should attempt to match, or else the attempt fails. This still involves some level of personal input, yes, but it's not quite as opinion based as our current system.

Last edited 13/05/13(Mon)19:04.

>> No.6017   [Delete]   [Edit]
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I've been reading through this entire convo, so I'm gonna go ahead and throw out my opinion on the matter.
Some people already use dice rolls and coin flips to decide things in RP now and then for the fun of it, so I see no problem with working to build a more structured version of that.
However, the key point is FOR THE FUN OF IT. We shouldn't try to FORCE dice rolls onto people if they feel it will restrict their experiences too much, just have it as an option to spice things up a little.

Last edited 13/05/13(Mon)19:13.

>> No.6018   [Delete]   [Edit]

I don't disagree with that, the problem is that if you implement a dice roll without forcing it you end up with a split in the community where one side chooses to rp with dice rolls and the other chooses not to. The problem with this is that it confuses the hell out of new members, and generally divides the community when they engage in stuff like this.

Personally I don't feel that setting a difficulty like D&D does is a good way to rp in this setting. D&D works because, for the most part, things are balanced in a certain way and there are a lot of limits in what the characters can actually do. Because of this, it's easy to set difficulties and stuff like that. When you take that to a world like this though, where everything comes from its own established canon, things are extremely difficult to compare and relate to each other and, quite honestly, most of these established canons never really put anything out to allow us to quantify how powerful something is.

So basically, while I feel this kind of system works when everything is made to fit within it, I don't exactly feel like imposing a system like that on a pre-existing rp with as many variables as this one has is a good move.

>> No.6022   [Delete]   [Edit]
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Clearly the only solution is to use Exalted to stat the RP out. It's the only system crazy enough to handle it.

Also the dice thing should probably be made its own thread rather than drowning out the original point; about random encounters.

Last edited 13/05/14(Tue)03:11.

>> No.6024   [Delete]   [Edit]
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I'm going to point you to this, >>5995, specifically the point where I replied to Glint.

Basically, rolling dice is fine if used to predict an outcome you can't decide or are too lazy to make a final decision, or whatever. But using it as a crutch because you don't want to deal with your RP is not okay. Dealing with your RP entails speaking to the other person, taking control of your character, thinking of possible outcomes yourself, thinking what your character would do, the works.

Dice rolling is fine, but only if used right. It isn't a crutch to be able to just say the dice did it and let a random number generator take hold of your session.

>> No.6025   [Delete]   [Edit]
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This is true. I haven't ever meant to imply that we should force the entire RP to use dice rolling. If it sounded like that's what I was saying, I'm sorry. I can be bad at wording things sometimes.

Mostly, I think there are certain members who would want you to roll a die for certain things if you fight THEM, however. Like, I would want anyone who RP fights with me to roll something now and again. Not for everything, either, since, as Yuri has pointed out, it's not really necessary for a lot of other things.

Also, as an example of what Noko's saying... Sonic vs. The Flash. These are two characters that, if they had to race or fight in the RP, it'd be very hard to compare their various speeds. With dice, though, we could talk it out OoCly and then decide what to do from there. And without dice, you could do the same, but... in my experience that can turn into a blown out argument that's unnecessary and unpleasant for both parties. I argued with a certain member about the speed of one of their characters once. The issue was that I'd seen the movie just like they had and completely disagreed with the speed they asserted the character could move at. In the end, we plotholed the session after almost an hour of arguing and getting several others involved. It was messy, and I feel like it didn't have to be, if we could've just decided to roll some dice to decide outside factors that could influence things, like not tripping, or dodging around obstacles or something.

Finally, I hope you're joking about that D: We couldn't get everyone to do something like that no matter how hard we tried XD

Although you're right about this subject.

So I'm going to go make a new thread for this and suggest that the tangents in this t hread about dice rolling be deleted for ease of access and to return the thread to it's original purpose.

Last edited 13/05/14(Tue)12:56.

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